Why don’t you get back into the kitchen, eh?

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I do not care what you, or any other dumb fucks have to say on the matter – statements (intended to be jokes) aimed at the stereotypical ideas of women are not jokes. If we take offence to them it’s because you’re belittling us, and all other females – you have no right to say ‘calm down, it’s only a joke’ or anything remotely similar.

It is not up to you what we find offensive. And it’s not up to you to tell us how you would act better if you were in the same situation. Why? Because you are not a woman. If you’re a male (especially a white heterosexual male) you need to step up and see your privilege. There is nothing anyone could say to you that comes close to any of these statements said to women on a daily basis

  • You never have to worry that the person who’s been walking the same direction as you for about 10 minutes at night, might actually be following you.
  • You never need to deal with people thinking it’s acceptable behaviour to roll down their car windows or turn around in the street, and either whistle or shout something about you being ‘bangable’ or a ‘wee slut’.
  • You never have to deal with some men thinking they’re allowed to touch you whenever they want.
  • You never have to worry about asking someone to back off when they’re gyrating their bits around your general arse area in a club.
  • You never have to worry about being groped and told to take it as a compliment.

These are just some of the things men take for granted. So don’t you dare tell me (or any other women) we need to ‘calm down and take the joke’ or ‘take a chill pill’. I have a fucking cracking sense of humour, but when you’re ‘jokes’ belittle me, and an entire gender, it’s time for you to realise there’s only one person who needs to change, and that person is you.

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12 responses »

  1. “You never have to worry that the person who’s been walking the same direction as you for about 10 minutes at night, might actually be following you.”

    Have you looked at the murder stats? Women get raped, men get murdered. We men do have to worry. Plus you don’t have to worry much about the street, most rapes are by acquintances and while drunk.

    “You never need to deal with people thinking it’s acceptable behaviour to roll down their car windows or turn around in the street, and either whistle or shout something about you being ‘bangable’ or a ‘wee slut’.”

    Mostly, true, although I have some highly physically attractive male friends who have had quite a bit of that. I suspect women have higher standards for catcalling.

    “You never have to deal with some men thinking they’re allowed to touch you whenever they want.”

    Well, not never, there’s quite a few randy gay/bisexual men around, but no it’s mostly women. They presume that since men are so sexual they’d never say no.

    “You never have to worry about asking someone to back off when they’re gyrating their bits around your general arse area in a club.”

    News to me.

    “You never have to worry about being groped and told to take it as a compliment.”

    That’s really common. I remember one time when a female friend of mine grabbed a guy’s penis to illustrate a point she was making about him. I caught his eye and he looked very awkward about it. I called her out on it and he said it was fine, looking down submissively. If you refuse sex to a woman they assume it must be because they are extremely unattractive or you hate them.

    • Men need to realise that they are safer. And instead of commenting and saying well no we’re equally at risk or showing me that every point I’ve made does have another (much less equal, I might add) side.

      Part of the problem is that when women claim they are unsafe walking home, men will say ‘well so are we’. They don’t want to admit that they’re probably be safer. I’m not trying to say the murder rates are low or anything, but the chances are, as a male there’s more chance of you being able to fend off an attacker. You have strength on your side.

      If a women whistles at a man it’s completely different – and it happens A LOT less. Women are not as threatening physically to men as men are to women. Their is a lot more that can happen to women as a result. There’s a lot more fear to be instilled.

      ‘News to me’ is the only point here that really angers me. Just because something doesn’t happen to you, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen at all.

      Again with your last point. If a female gropes a male they probably aren’t worried that she might attack them or anything. I’m not saying it’s okay to do, I think it’s wrong, but the issue here is that if a woman does that to a man, it causes awkwardness etc. It doesn’t cause fear that they could later be raped.

      Problems men face regarding safety etc are nowhere near as high as the problems that face women. They’re not on the same level. Women are much more vulnerable and that is a fact.

      • I question how unequal the sides are. A lot of women don’t notice their quite rapey behaviour, but it’s pretty common.

        “I’m not trying to say the murder rates are low or anything, but the chances are, as a male there’s more chance of you being able to fend off an attacker. You have strength on your side.”

        Most violent criminals are young strong males with knives or guns. If you try to fight them off then you’re in for a world of hurt whether you win or not, and physical assault is extremely traumatizing. Plus, like with rape, criminals often target drunk people who aren’t that physically capable. And generally, most well behaved citizens aren’t mentally well built for dealing with a rape or an assault, so a lot of people just freeze up.

        “If a women whistles at a man it’s completely different – and it happens A LOT less. Women are not as threatening physically to men as men are to women. Their is a lot more that can happen to women as a result. There’s a lot more fear to be instilled.”

        It’s still pretty intimidating. Not that common as you say, it only happens to the most attractive males, but you know that if you say no she’ll get pissed and she and her friends may attack you. Physical strength can’t easily beat numbers.

        “‘News to me’ is the only point here that really angers me. Just because something doesn’t happen to you, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen at all. ”

        I’m regularly groped in clubs, and gyrated on. It happens to me a lot. It’s hot and sweaty and sensual and random people have their way with your bum cheeks.

        “Again with your last point. If a female gropes a male they probably aren’t worried that she might attack them or anything. I’m not saying it’s okay to do, I think it’s wrong, but the issue here is that if a woman does that to a man, it causes awkwardness etc. It doesn’t cause fear that they could later be raped.”

        Most females who have been groped that I know weren’t worried about being attacked either, they just didn’t like people presuming that their sexuality was an open buffet for anyone to taste. In fact, they often provoked violence by slapping the groper, something that could easily lead to a fight. The feeling of powerlessness to stop sexual abuse is often the worst feeling, and males certainly have that.

        “Problems men face regarding safety etc are nowhere near as high as the problems that face women. They’re not on the same level. Women are much more vulnerable and that is a fact.”

        http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

        http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/gender.cfm

        From these, men are the victims of violent crime and murder much more than women. And the violent crime rate is much, much higher than the rape rate. Rape is certainly bad and reprehensible, but I think the facts speak for themselves- men are much more vulnerable, and that is a statistically proven fact.

        The small segment of the population that enjoys breaking the law is mostly male and likes hurting males mostly.

        Plus, “Female victims are more likely than male victims to be killed by an intimate or family member.

        Male victims are more likely than female victims to be killed by acquaintances or strangers.”

        We have more to fear from random people that we don’t know well.

      • The rape conviction rate in the UK is 3%. Howeversince 1 in 7 rapes are reported that makes it more like 0.43%.
        If you’re a rapist there is a 99.4% chance you’ll get off scot free. But on the other hand if you’re believed to make a false allegation of rape you have ten times the chance of being prosecuted got the offence – aprox 6% of suspected false allegations are prosecuted.

        Rape IS much more common that violent assault regardless of what statistics say. And imagine taking your attacker to court and they’re allowed to use your underwear in your trial. ‘She was wearing these, how was my client meant to keep his hands off her’ If you were to take your attacker to court because they beat you up and robbed you, they’re not going to say ‘Well you had your wallet in your hand, you were asking for it’ are they?

        Stop trying to pull to pieces my argument because as man you cannot tell me that none of these things happen to me as a woman, and that everything I’ve mentioned is as much of a threat to men.

        ‘We have more to fear from random people that we don’t know well.’ – Stop it. You do not have more fear of people you don’t know so well. You just don’t.

        Please just realise that AS A MAN YOU ARE SAFER THAN A WOMAN. End of.

  2. That figure of a 3% conviction rate, it’s quite misleading. Most cases, including violent crimes, have similar low conviction rates because mostly people don’t want to go to court. As a rape victim, why deal with all the pressure when you feel like crap? But once they get to court they have a 60% conviction rate, higher than for other crimes. A government review found that widespread use of that figure (well, 6-10% actually, not sure where you got 3%) had probably put rape victims off pushing their cases- if you’re willing to push your case you have a good chance of getting a prosecution, especially if you were injured.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7442785/Rape-conviction-rate-figures-misleading.html

    “Rape IS much more common that violent assault regardless of what statistics say. ”

    Violent assault is also a humiliating crime. Do you really want to admit some teenager beat you up, stole your stuff, and humiliated you in front of your friends? That you are pathetic and weak, not strong enough? That you’re not safe in your neighbourhood? To see them bring into evidence your bloody tshirt, hear them say that their mates are going to get you back for what you did?

    “Stop trying to pull to pieces my argument because as man you cannot tell me that none of these things happen to me as a woman, and that everything I’ve mentioned is as much of a threat to men.”

    Bad things happen to men and women. Depending on your perspective, whether sexual assault or violent crimes are worse, and how much worse, you can easily say either is more of a threat. But I don’t think it’s clear who has it worse. Women have four times the depression rate, men have four times the suicide rate, so it’s not clear who is more sad either. The government should seek to make the lives of both better.

    • ‘Violent assault is also a humiliating crime?’ – It’s a horrible crime yes but I think having to admit you were raped is worse? Do you want to live with that knowledge forever? You can buy back your stuff, but you can’t buy back what a rapist takes from you. I am not trying to say that other violent crimes do not happen and don’t have damaging effects, but I am saying that rape is worse. Please stop coming back and trying to disprove my really rather valid point.

      In court for rape they can pull up all kinds of evidence against YOU. If you are mugged they don’t ask what you were wearing to provoke, they don’t say ‘well they were drunk and asked for it’. In rape cases the woman is also put on trial. If she was drunk, wearing a short skirt, or a low cut top, even if she was wearing trousers and a thong underneath, it’s all brought out in front of an entire court for a group of strangers to decide if what you were wearing, or doing, meant this poor man couldn’t help himself. That will never happen in a violent assault case. Ever.

      There is more chance you will get a fair trial if you have been beaten up in comparison to being raped.

      How you can even compare a teenager beating you up and stealing your stuff to the often long ordeal inflicted on rape victims, I’ve no idea.

      Men do not understand or often even contemplate the many things women have to go through daily just because they are a women. I didn’t even list the petty ridiculous little things, like, being ripped off if you take your car to a garage because they see a woman – which obviously means they know nothing about cars (I was once told my car needed a new engine when in fact I knew and there was nothing wrong with it bar a small part of the dipstick falling off and making a weird noise.) When my dad took the same car to the same garage they told him straight up what was wrong. Lots of little things than men don’t even think about are barriers faced by women on a regular basis.

      Pay. There are still cases going through court today where men are paid more than their female counterparts.

      I never mentioned the suicide rates or the depression or anything along those lines because they were not really relevant to my point – which was women are not equal to men.

  3. “You can buy back your stuff, but you can’t buy back what a rapist takes from you. ”

    i think this is where some of the issue is. You see assault as a purely practical manner, something that doesn’t matter so much as most guys are strong enough to resist it and you can buy back your stuff. The biggest problem though is the loss of dignity and safety, and that happens with assault and rape.

    And violent crimes are much more common. They vary from things much less traumatizing than a rape to things more traumatizing than a rape. From being hit to having someone cut a new hole in you to having your child tortured to death in front of your eyes.

    “If you are mugged they don’t ask what you were wearing to provoke, they don’t say ‘well they were drunk and asked for it’. In rape cases the woman is also put on trial. If she was drunk, wearing a short skirt, or a low cut top, even if she was wearing trousers and a thong underneath, it’s all brought out in front of an entire court for a group of strangers to decide if what you were wearing, or doing, meant this poor man couldn’t help himself. That will never happen in a violent assault case. Ever. ”

    That almost always happens in a violent assault. The police assume that if a fight happened that you were probably one of the causes of it because normally both people claim self defence. They check if you were drunk, because drunk people often get into a fight. It’s all brought out in front of a court for strangers to decide if the poor man couldn’t help himself.

    http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html

    “Recognize right up front, that no matter what his motivations really were when he pulled the trigger, when he is facing the police, every scum bucket has claimed it was “self-defense.” In fact, there was one precedent setting case in California, were an armed robber claimed “it was self-defense” when the person he was attempting to rob pulled a gun to fight back and the robber shot him. Now maybe in whatever alternative reality he lives in stabbing someone fifteen time for insulting him is “self-defense” but that definition doesn’t hold water with the police, much less the courts.

    Unfortunately, both sides claiming it was self-defense make up about 99% of the cases the police see. And it isn’t just one side lying, it’s usually both. That old clich?about “taking two to fight” is true. Which means in that same 99% both sides were actively fighting and are now not only blaming the other, but protesting their ‘innocence.'”

    Imagine if every time someone was raped the police said that it takes two to rape. That’s the situation men are in most of the time.

    “Men do not understand or often even contemplate the many things women have to go through daily just because they are a women.”

    We don’t, but women don’t tend to consider the reverse either. You mention pay- men don’t tend to get any consideration if we’re overworked, or if we die more often than women. 95% of workplace deaths are of men, and we tend to work longer hours. We have different issues, but it’s hardly clear that all women have it worse.

    • I think this is where some of the issue is My original post was about ‘jokes’ such as ‘get back in the kitchen’ – which are degrading and belittling towards women. My post wasn’t about men and assault. It wasn’t about any of the things you’re not trying to tell me I don’t know anything about/ disregard. Your responses are typically male. Although you’re at least acknowledging the fact women are victims of certain attacks etc, rather than just saying, yeah, fuck it’s shit that women are treated this way, you’re having to prove men are just as hard done by – which just isn’t the case. I’ll say it again, and again if I have to – women are not equal to men. The issues I commented on above are mainly problems faced by women – and men facing anything said above have an advantage – the fact they are male.

      For the record I think all violent assault is wrong, but this post isn’t about all violent assault. It’s about the mistreatment of women. Realise that, please.

      • Your post was about how heterosexual men can’t understand sexist jokes because they have priviledge, and how our experiences on a daily basis aren’t anything near as bad as what women experience on a daily basis. Your hope was that men would stop saying sexist jokes, change, and not tell you to take a chill pill.

        The post may have been about the mistreatment of women, but it was also about you saying that men don’t face any worries comparable to women. If you want men to stop telling women to take a chill pill, some understanding of our rather large worries would help. If you wanna focus on female issues, mistreatment of women, fine, but there’s no need to tell men what they experience without actually asking us.

      • You’ve assumed I’ve not asked but I speak to a lot of men about all these issues and all of them have agreed with me on the matter. So you can forget that one. It wasn’t about how men can’t understand sexist jokes, it was about how they don’t experience them as there is nothing out there that gets turned upon them. Men are rarely to told to ‘take the joke’ and ‘relax, it’s only funny, you know I don’t mean it.’

        I was not saying men do not face worries, I was saying that the things I posted about were more worrying for women than men. And the majority of the time that’s the case. I am not saying men do not face certain obstacles. There will be obstacles males face that are worse for them than women, but the majority of fears or worries faces by both sexes comes out worse if you are in fact female.

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